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Surfing the Talmudic Seas
(C) Dr Russell Jay Hendel, 2000
Volume 7 Number 19
Produced Sept 28, 2000
WARNING: USE FIX WIDTH FONTS (eg COURIER (NEW) 10)
Verses/Topics Discussed in This Issue with quicky explanations
QUESTIONS FROM READERS
v9-9-26a ANONYMOUS Comment encouraging long postings
v9-9-26b
Question by Mark Lowitz on how they told time in Talmudic
Times. A long answer is presented showing the difference
In law between a Gematria vs a Conceptual approach.
WEEKLY PARSHAH SERIES
Rashis covered in this issue
----------------------------
VERSE RULE BRIEF EXPLANATION
======== ============== =================
Dt32-30a SENTENCE STRCTR Rashi explains the WHO, WHOM, & TO WHOM
Dt32-30b SENTENCE STRCTR Rashi explains the WHO, WHOM, & TO WHOM
Dt32-30c SENTENCE STRCTR Rashi explains the WHO, WHOM, & TO WHOM
Dt32-31a SENTENCE STRCTR Rashi explains the WHO, WHOM, & TO WHOM
Dt32-31b SENTENCE STRCTR Rashi explains the WHO, WHOM, & TO WHOM
Dt32-32a SENTENCE STRCTR Rashi explains the WHO, WHOM, & TO WHOM
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RASHI IS SIMPLE
GOALS: To grammatically defend all 8000 Rashis on Chumash.
METHOD:Rashis are defended with LISTS of comparable cases
INTENDED AUDIENCE: Laymen, Academicians, Yeshiva world
COMMENTS,QUESTIONS: EMail to address below
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:If you want to ask anonymously please ask
(UN)SUBSCRIBE: Email to addresses below with "(UN)subscribe"
JOURNAL REFERECE: Pshat & Drash,TRADITION, Win 1980,R Hendel
NOTATION: eg Gn01-02a refers to Rashi "a" on Genesis 1:2
SPECIALS:...on Parshah,Rambam,Ramban,Pedagogy,Symbolism
RASHI-IS-SIMPLE RULES Complete set of rules on bottom
EMAIL: RJHendel@Juno.Com, rashi-is-simple@shamash.org,
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VERSE: v9-9-26a
FROM: Anonymous
RE: Repentance on Long Postings and
Promise to make shorter postings
DATE: Sept 2000
BACKGROUND: I recently, in honor of the New Year,
expressed my remorse at some of my longer postings and
promised to make shorter postings (which I have). In response
to my Teshuva on Long postings I received the following
response.
Russell,
WHAT??????? Long postings is NOT
something for you to repent of, is
it? There's always the delete button.
If people give you a hard time,
that may be their problem. I'd
underline 'their', but my Netscape does
not give me that option.
Oh, I get it, you're so close to perfect
that this was the best you
could come up with to get into
the 'repentance season'.
But I will take your blessing.
G-d knows, I probably need it! I'm
having a very hard time of it, this year.
I feel like my 'ba'al
t'shuva' grace period ran out long ago.
Well, the best to you.
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 2000 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VERSE: v9-9-26b
THE QUESTION
From: "Lowitz, Mark (HT-EX)"
To: "'RJHendel@Juno.Com'"
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:35:02 -0400
Subject: Question
Dr. Hendel,
Hope you are well.
I am currently learning Sanhedrin (with someone who knows you,
Jeff Schwartz [Cherry Hill, NJ]). We are studying the
procedure the courts used to interrogate witnesses. Without
getting intro all the details, the gemara goes into detail
regarding 7 questions the witnesses are asked. One question
asked was what time did the event occur. I was wondering if
you know how this was determined. I do not believe clocks
existed during the time the gemara was edited. I understand t
hat during a sunny day, time could be determined by the position
of the sun. However, how was it determined on a cloudy day
or in the evening?
Any halachic source would be appreciated.
Best regards,
Mark Lowitz
Component Engineer
Motorola
e-mail mlowitz@gi.com
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ANSWER
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I really would encourage everybody to join into this discussion.
This is an old question from a year ago. Here are some
sources which you can look up. I then summarize and
answer the question, In addition to ansewring
Marks question we discuss several deep Talmudic
issues on how Biblical derivation affects the final law.
SOURCES
http://www.RashiYomi.com/dt13-15a.htm
http://www.RashiYomi.com/h3n15.htm
See the Question & Discussion of Chaiim Brown
3 BASIC LAWS
1) THE LAW OF DETAILS
Three verses, Dt13-15, Dt17-04, Dt19-18, ask in 3 different
contexts that witnesses be examined WELL until 'BEHOLD' what they
say is true.'This commonality to 3 verses of WELL-BEHOLD, in and
of itself,suggests that interrogation MUST be DETAILED. You
don't just ask "When did the murder take place" but you ALSO
ask WELL (With details) "What hours, what day, what month,
what day of month, what year did the murder take place"
2) THE LAW OF WHAT-HOW-WHEN-WHERE
From the PARELLELISM of the verses we infer that there should
be three types of questions. For two of the verses simply
say "SEEK" from the witnesses while the third says "SEEK, ASK
& INVESTIGATE". Thus we have the requirements of performing
many types of investigations: WHAT Crime was committed?
HOW was it committed (eg Gun, Knife, Fight...) WHEN and WHERE
3) THE INVALIDATION PROCESS
Witnesses can be invalidated (and the accused is acquited) if
a) they contradict each other on ANY question
b) They express ignorance on one of the WHEN and WHERE questions
(or the WHAT-HOW questions)
*EXAMPLES--In the following cases the witnesses are invalidated
One witness says the murderer was wearing a green shirt while
the other witness says he(the murderer) was wearning a
red shirt.
One witness said the crime happened on Tuesday at 2 while
one witness said it happened at 2 but he forgets which day
*EXAMPLES---In this example the witnesses are NOT invalidated
One witness says he was wearing a green shirt while the
other witness forgot.
MY APPROACH vs THE LITERAL TALMUDIC APPROACH
My approach is based on the parallel verses. I believe the
laws come from the repeated emphasis SEEK WELL UNTIL YOU BEHOLD
By contrast, the literal interpretation
of Rashi counts 7 extra phrases and
concludes that there are EXACTLY 7 WHERE-WHEN questions
a) What PLACE b) What HOUR c) What day of week d) What day of
Month e) What Month f) What year g) What 7-year cycle.
PLACES WHERE I AND THE LITERAL APPROACH DIFFER
Here is where I and the literal approach differ:
Should we ask DETAILED QUESTIONS about WHERE it happened?
BUT
As we already saw you can/should ask detailed questions about
anything? What color shirt? Where? When?
And we further saw that ANY type of contradiction invalidates
the witnesses.
So of course you should ask details about the WHERE (This
point was made by Chaiim Brown)
So the only issue is whether we should REQUIRE as part of the
WHERE-WHEN questions that DETAILED QUESTIONS OF WHEN be
asked so that if the witnesses were ignorant they would
be invalidated. In fact I suggest we should ask a) What
street did the murder take place b) What avenue c) What
borough d) What city e) What state f) What country.
If the witnesses can't answer these questions they
are invalidated
By contrast the LITERAL approach says that although
you MAY ask these 7 questions nevertheless if the
witnesses are ignorant of all the WHEN questions then
we do not invalidate them. (In passing I find it
remarkable that if the witnesses do not remember
whether it is 1 or 2 years ago they are invalidated
but if they do not remember whether the murder took
place in the Bronx or Queens they are not invalidated)
SUMMARY:
I think there are real issues here. If we approach the
Bible conceptually then my 6-part approach to WHERE is
required. If we approach it literally then it is not
required
TECHNICAL MATTERS:
The Rambam and Halacha in several places in KETUVOTH and
LOANS speak about the fact that "Some cities drew
documents with hour-times stamped while some just
mentioed the day". Jerusalem was one such city where
documents mentioned the HOUR. This helped in LOANS
since it was clear which lender lent first.
How could Jerusalemites know the hour? I would guess
quite simply that several centrally located "posts"
in Jerusalem had "hour sand glasses" which enabled
computation of the exact hour. These posts would
periodically "ANNOUNCE THE HOUR" so that all
people who drew up loans would know what hour
it was.
Hope this answers your question, Mark. And to the
rest of you...My invitation to Chaiim last year
to generate a Talmudic discussion on the
topic of derivation is still open
Russell Jay Hendel; Moderator Rashi is Simple
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 2000 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
VERSE: Dt32-30a
RASHIS COVERED: Dt32-30a Dt32-30b Dt32-30c
Dt32-31a Dt32-31b Dt32-32a
BACKGROUND: Dt32-26:27 Explicitly states that the JEWS are wicked
and God would have destroyed them were it not for the fact that
the ENEMIES of the Jews would then say that we won (And not
their God destroyed them ). The verses following these
alternately talk about the JEWS or their ENEMIES. However because
of the poetic terseness of these verses it is not always made
clear whether they are talking about the JEWS or their ENEMIES
Thus Rashis Job will be to explain WHO is being spoken about.
RULE: In dealing with POETIC verses there are 4 separate problems
that Rashi can be dealing with:
a) MEANING: Rashi can simply explain the meaning of words
b) GRAMMAR: Rashi can simply explain the function of words--
who is doing it; how etc
c) SENTENCE STRUCTURE: Rashi can be explaining the relation
of sentences parts
d) CLIMAX: Rashi can be showing the development of
various sentences
Note, that these are the 4 rule categories of the Rashi rules
(which you can find listed below at the bottom of the digest).
In the previous digest (Volume 7 Number 18) we showed how the
concept of CONTEXT and DEVELOPMENT can be used to give richness
of understanding. We have also seen verses where the hard part
is word MEANING. In this posting we show how Rashi can be
explaining grammatical function.
EXAMPLES:
------------------------------------------------------------
In the following verses Rashi clarifies whether the verse is
Speaking about the Jews or their enemies. To clarify the
Verses I shall use the Nazis as example of Jewish enemies
Missing words supplied by Rashi are placed in CAPS
------------------------------------------------------------
EXAMPLE 1: Dt32-30
How shall one NAZI *1 pursue 1000 JEWS *2
Two NAZIS *1 pursue 10000 JEWS *2
Unless their [ie the Jewish] God had sold them[the Jews]
TO THE NAZIS*3
NOTES
*1 Dt32-30a Rashi fills in the grammatical Subject--
WHO is pursueing (the Nazis)
*2 Dt32-30b Rashi fills in the grammatical object---
WHOM is being pursued(Jews)
*3 Dt32-30c Rashi fills in the indirect object---------
TO WHOM are they being sold
Notice how Rashis task is NOT to explain meaning, or context but
rather to explain Grammatical function. Rashi transforms the
verse How can 1 pursue 1000" to "How can 1 NAZI pursue 1000 JEWS
By filling in the missing words Rashi explains
grammatical funciton.
We could also explain why Poetry sometimes leave words
out.....but that is not our task
here (See Sifsay Chachamim for interesting comments).
Our task here is to show Rashis basic function as grammatical.
EXAMPLE 2: Dt32-32a For the JEWISH vines are Sedomite Vines
RASHI: This verse refers back to several previous verses where
Jewish wickedness was discussed. For example
{LIST}
VERSE TEXT
------- --------------------------------------
Dt32-15 The Jews rebelled and deserted God
Dt32-16 They angered him with foreign worship
Dt32-17 They worshipped foreign Gods
Dt32-26 I said I would destroy the Jews..
Dt32-32 For the JEWISH vines are SEDOMITE vines
Thus again Rashi is clarifying grammatical function--
WHO, HOW, WHOM, TO WHOM. The reason it is necessary
for Rashi to do this is because the verses rapidly
fluctuate between the JEWS whom God would destroy
and the NAZIS who are too stupid to see that their victory
is because God allowed it.
EXAMPLE 3: Dt32-31
BACKGROUND: Just 5 verses earlier the Torah explicitly says
Dt32-26 I thought to myself, let me destroy the JEWS,
eradicate their memory
Dt32-27 But I decided against destroying them ....
lest the NAZIS say
Our hand was victorious--we won--God had
nothing to do with it
So Rashi interprets Dt32-31 the same way
Dt32-31 For our (ie JEWISH) God
cannot compare to the nazi god*1
AND THEREFORE IT MUST BE GOD WHO ALLOWS
The nazis to rule over us
NOTES
*1 eg The Jewish God delivered us from Egypt. The nazis have no
Comparable religious experience. So they should understand
That any victories they obtain must be with the consent of
The Jewish God
So again Rashi identifies GRAMMATICAL FUNCTION and shows how the
parts of the sentence are connected
RULE USED: SENTENCE STRCTR
#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 2000 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*
THE 2 DOZEN RASHI-IS-SIMPLE RASHI RULES
http://www.RashiYomi.Com/rules.htm
=======================================
I: RASHI gives MEANING
======================
A: NEW MEANINGS--(eg)"on the face of"=during the lifetime
Volume 2 Number 9, http://www.rashiyomi.Com/Nu04-04a.htm
B: SPECIAL WORDS--(eg)ACH=USUALLY;USUALLY observe shabbath!
Rashi Yomi Summaries,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Ach-6.htm
C: SYNONYMS--(eg)AMR=to speak; DBR=to cite or to quote;
Volume 2 Number 1, http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Lv20-02a.htm
D: WORD MEANINGS-Thermos(TzNTzNTh)=doubly(TZN TZN) Cold(TZN)
Volume 1 Number 9,23,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Ex31-15a.htm
E: UNIFIED MEANINGS-PAAM=Repeated action:To Ring,Hammer,Step
Volume 1 Number 3,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Gn41-08a.htm
II: RASHI teaches GRAMMAR/STYLE
===============================
F: CLASSICAL GRAMMAR--(eg)QUESTION = HEY+CHATAF PATACH
Volume 3 Number 22,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Gn04-09z.htm
G: USAGE(NEW GRAMMAR)--(eg)INFINITIVE="be involved in";
Volume 5 Number 24,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Ex13-03a.htm
H: ROOT+PREPOSITION--(eg)ChZK B="to hold";ChZK M="overpower"
Volume 1 Number 7,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Ex04-04a.htm
I: THE SENTENCE--2 verses can make 1 sentence-eg Dt02-16:17
Volume 3 Number 7,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Dt19-06a.htm
J: STYLE--REPETITION denotes Endearment;eg 'Jacob Jacob'
Volume 1 Number 12,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Gn46-02a.htm
K: DOUBLE NOUNS--(eg)"GIVE GIVE";if not CHARITY then LOAN
Double Noun page, http://www.RashiYomi.Com/DN.htm
L: PRONOUNS-(eg)IMCHAH=with you; ITCHAH=Accompanying you;
Volume 3 Number 13,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Ex22-24c.htm
III: OVERALL TEXTUAL STRUCTURE
==============================
M: OTHER VERSES--Aaron SAW(Ex32-05)...the brawl(Ex32-18)
OTHER VERSE page, http://www.RashiYomi.Com/ov.htm
N: EXTRA SENTENCES-eg[GIVE HIM][WHAT HE NEEDS](Not if rich)
Volume 2 Number 20,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Dt15-08c.htm
O: DOUBLE PARSHAS-'he WILL pray'-'he WON'T pray';So Optional
Volume 3 Number 12,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Dt24-14a.htm
P: CLIMAX-(eg Dt19-11)(a)Hate, (b)spy, (c)confront,(d)Murder
Climax Page, http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Climax.htm
Q: OVERALL STRUCTURE-growing nails=despisement(from context)
Volume 3 Number 8,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Dt21-11a.htm
R: SPREADSHEETS-What is the marriage loophole in inheritance
Volume 2 Number 23,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Nu36-03a.htm
IV: BEYOND THE TEXT
===================
S: MORAL LESSONS/REASONS-God explains BEFORE punishing;
Volume 2 Number 12,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Nu12-09a.htm
T: RabbiIshmael-(eg)"When an OX gores";(Or ANY animal gores)
Volume 4 Number 21,http://www.RashiYomi.Com/Dt25-04a.htm
End of Rashi-Is-Simple Digest
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